普拉昌达同志谈尼泊尔当前形势
（译者注：这是普拉昌达同志最近在加德满都接受两名新闻记者的联合采访文稿。关于尼泊尔革命，译者想谈谈个人的一点看法，尼泊尔革命的成败最终主要取决于尼泊尔革命同志和尼泊尔人民。别国的革命同志可以提些有益的建议，但是不要把自己的意志强加于尼泊尔共产党（毛主义），假如建议变成了干涉，那就会帮倒忙。同志们应该按照伟大领袖金日成同志的主体思想要求，让尼泊尔共产党（毛主义）和尼泊尔人民自己独立自主地解决尼泊尔革命的问题。无论将来尼泊尔革命成功或失败，都会为尼泊尔共产主义运动和21世纪国际共产主义运动增添宝贵的经验和教训）
问：People supported the 12-point understanding of November 2005,between the Maoists and the Seven Party Alliance (SPA), and came on to the streets demanding the abolition of monarchy. It is felt that the agreement of April 25 is incomplete. However, you have come overground and talks are now on. How are things proceeding?
问：人民支持2005年11月毛主义者和七党联盟签定的12点协议，并且走上街头要求废除君主制。4月25日协议看起来不够完整。不过，您已经公开露面并接受采访。您认为形势会如何发展呢？
答：At the time we forged the understanding with the SPA in November 2005,we had foreseen the sequence of events. That is why we strongly opposed the demand for the restoration of Parliament as a slogan in the movement. We tried to convince the SPA to move directly towards an interim government and elections for the Constitutional Assembly (CA). The Nepali Congress, specifically Girija Prasad Koirala, disagreed. We already guessed at that time that this slogan of reinstatement of the House of Representatives (HoR) might leave a loophole for the king to take advantage. And this reinstated HoR may be the tool for the leaders of the political parties to reach an agreement with the king. We suspected then that such possibilities would dilute the achievements of the movement. Because of our suspicions of these dangers and our observations, we did not accept the slogans of the SPA when we agreed to enter into an understanding. Our party was well aware that the politics in Nepal was like a frozen pond that needed to be destroyed in order to open the way for a new political environment.If it develops accordingly, then further understanding may develop for the election of the CA and the institutionalisation of Loktantrik Ganatantra (democratic republic). If things don’t happen according to our thinking, then this understanding will create a greater people’s movement. If one or another party betrays the movement, they would be left exposed to the masses politically, paving the way for the third phase of the movement to come into play. So, that was our firm belief. Observing and analysing this situation, we reached the understanding. Now, we are at the crossroads.
答：2005年11月，在我们同七党联盟签定协议时，我们就预见到事情的发展状况
。因此我们强烈反对把恢复议会作为人民运动的口号。我们努力说服七党联盟直接成立临时政府和进行制宪会议选举。但是，尼泊尔大会党，尤其是科依拉那不同意。我们当时已经估计到恢复议会的口号会被国王利用。这个被恢复的议会会成为政党领导人同国王合作的工具。我们当时估计那样可能会丧失人民运动的成果。由于我们熟悉到这种危险，在我们签定协议时，我们没有接受七党联盟的口号。我们党清楚地熟悉到尼泊尔政治就象一个冰冻的池塘，它应该被凿开以便为创造新的政治环境开辟道路。假如尼泊尔政治正常发展，那么我们就会在制宪会议选举和民主共和国方面进一步达成共识。否则，就会造成一场更大规模的人民运动。假如政党们背叛人民运动，那他们就会在政治上被人民识破，并为人民运动的第三阶段铺平道路。我们坚信这一点。通过对当前形势的观察和分析，我们得出了这个结论。现在，我们正处于十字路口。
问：On the eight-point agreement of May 16, 2006 between the Maoists and the SPA, some newspapers commented on this as the formation of a new front, but it was opposed by the leaders of the political parties from the very next day itself.The present situation appears pretty much the same as on May 16. What are the contradictions and hurdles that created such circumstances?
问：关于2006年6月16日（译者纠正）毛主义者和七党联盟的8点协议，当时一些报纸认为那是形势进步到一个新的高度，但是，第二天这种评论就被各政党领导人否定了。当前形势与6月16日时非常相似，那么，是什么矛盾和困难造成今天这样的形势呢？
答：Of course, the eight-point agreement of Baluwatar was a very important
understanding. The Baluwatar Agreement untied the knot of Nepali politics which was an obstacle since the 1950s. For the first time, the eight point
agreement had created a political arrangement for realising the right of the people in its true sense. It could be said that Parliament was the venue for foreign powers to play their role. The next place is the palace. When the political role of the palace and Parliament remains constant, then people never get their rights. We fought every time, but power remained in the same place. The Baluwatar Agreement clearly demonstrated the power beyond Parliament. It indicated the decisiveness of the State power in the hands of revolutionary people. The seven parties and we signed this agreement.
We understood it as a great event in the process of historical resolution.
When this agreement was made public, and when I appealed to the people through the press conference that we are moving towards a new experiment, then influential power centres, especially the United States, suddenly felt great pain. The very next day I heard that the US has been making provocative statements, saying that the entire country had followed the Maoists’ agenda. Second, Delhi went cold with fear. That was because during the Delhi visit of Koirala he had reached an understanding for not dissolving Parliament. Ten days later, we reached an agreement on the dissolution of Parliament. When Delhi asked them, “What did you do?” then the leaders of the parties, who are actually more dependent on foreigners, started crying the next morning. This is the real cause. Their mouths have opened here, but the reality is that only after Delhi and Washington started speaking the real problem commenced.
答：当然，巴鲁华特的8点协议是非常重要的协议。巴鲁华特协议解开了自1950年代以来成为尼泊尔政治难题的绳结。8点协议第一次为真正实现人民的权利创造了一种政治环境。应该说议会是外国势力发挥作用的场所。另一个场所是王宫。假如宫廷和议会的政治作用不变，人民就永远不能得到他们的权利。我们斗争多次，但是权力仍然留在原地。巴鲁华特协议明确表明权力超出议会，指出国家权力属于革命人民。七党和我们签定了这个协议。我们把它称之为一项重大的历史性决议。当协议被公之于众以及我们在新闻发布会上向人民表明，我们正朝着一个新的阶段前进时，国外势力，非凡是美国忽然感到非常痛苦。就在第二天，我听到美国发表了一篇煽动性的声明，说整个国家已经纳入了毛主义者的日程表。另外，德里因惧怕而态度冷淡。那是因为科依拉那在德里访问期间，他们就不解散议会曾取得过共识。10天后，我们在解散议会问题上达成协议。当德里问他们，“你们做了些什么？”于是，那些实际上更加依靠外国人的政党领导人开始在第二天早晨大嚷大叫。这就是真正的原因。在这，他们早就唠叨，其实当德里和华盛顿开始发令时，问题就出来了。
问：There are differences between your party and the SPA. How will your party and SPA protect the past understandings? How are you proceeding?
问：在你们党和七党联盟之间存在着分歧。那你们党和七党联盟将如何维护过去的协议？你们如何解决？
答：When dissenting voices began to emerge against the agreement, a distorted agenda emerged from new quarters. We reflected that this might have happened because of the lack of homework and the hurriedness of the process. We then came back and talked intensively to the parties. We talked informally with the CPN (UML) and the NC in the Godavari resort and similarly with other parties. We tried to streamline all procedures which had gone astray. We talked with seven-eight senior leaders of the NC and UML leadership, where talks on every issue went smoothly. To avoid differences, we agreed to return the property of concerned persons by accepting a mechanism.But the major issue of politics was never resolved. While all this was going on, the Congress parliamentary party passed the resolution against the eight-point agreement. We have observed that the problem will not be resolved by talking, because the key to the problem lies somewhere else. As we said earlier at the time of Sher Bahadur Deuba, that “nothing will be resolved by talking to the servant, we need to talk to the real master”. Things are looking similar even today. We think the parties and leaders are like servants, while the masters are living abroad. That is why I announced on July 28, 2006
答：当反对协议的不同声音出现时，就会出现歪曲的议程。我们认为这是由于缺乏预备和处理仓促。那么我们就回来同各政党进行热烈的交谈。我们同尼泊尔共产党（联合马列）以及尼泊尔大会党在Godavari地区进行过非正式的交谈，和其他政党也有类似的对话。我们努力纠正所有偏离的事项。我们和七、八个尼泊尔大会党以及尼共（联合马列）的高级领导人交谈，关于各类问题的交谈都很顺利。为了避免分歧，我们同意通过一定手续退还一些人的财产。但是，主要政治问题从来也没有解决。当所有这些事正在处理时，大会党通过了一项反对8点协议的决议。我们已熟悉到通过谈话不能解决问题，因为问题的要害在另外一些地方。就象我们早些时候同德乌帕讲的那样，“同仆人谈话什么也解决不了，我们需要同真正的主人谈话”。事情即使在今天也一样。我们认为各政党极其领导人就象仆人，而主人在国外。因此，我在2006年7月28日发布了公告。
问：You earlier talked about an October revolution, now you are appealing to the people to prepare for a peaceful movement. What message will go after this contradictory appeal?
问：您曾谈到过一场十月革命，现在您却在呼吁人民预备一场和平运动。这样矛盾的呼吁会传达怎样的信息呢？
答：What did the two of you understand from our appeal? In our understanding, when people ask us that Maoists are at the negotiation table while simultaneously preparing for a peaceful uprising, we don’t have an appropriate answer. The fact is that in its essence, it is both. We came here thinking that we will succeed in the agenda of creating a democratic republic through peaceful means and should try for this. It is not as though we came to the negotiating table with an uprising as the prime agenda. We are in the committee for the Interim Constitution and the talks committee. Our headquarters is also involved here in the political interactions for over a month-and-ahalf. On the basis of ten years of people’s war (PW), it is possible to go into peaceful transformation. The PW influenced the 12-point understanding and we can proceed to the October revolution in a peaceful way. If the parties had waited for two more days and not stalled the movement by accepting the April 24- 25, (11 Baisakh) announcement, the October revolution might have happened right then. Everyone knows that accepting the 11 Baisakh announcement was the result of a clandestine agreement between the SPA, the king and India. If the acceptance was deferred by two days, millions of people were advancing towards the Narayanhiti Palace. That momentum was there. Everyone knows that. If that process was not thwarted, the October revolution might have been heralded. It is possible to advance that process even through the people’s referendum and CA elections. We are focusing our attention on political transformation through peaceful means. However, in the end I have to say that if this government engages in a conspiracy against the people’s aspirations and if it plots with the high command of the old army, if they get intimidated by its generals, and if they want to advance and survive by being the brokers of the generals, then the Nepali people will revolt. We will be in favour of such a revolt.
答：你们两位从我们的呼吁中理解到什么呢？我们认为，当人民要求我们和谈而同时又预备一场和平起义时，我们不能给予恰当的答复。事实上，两者在本质上是一致的。我们到这来，认为我们会成功地通过和平方式建立民主共和国并应该为此而努力。那并不是指我们来到谈判桌前，却带着起义的谈判方案。我们加入了临时宪法委员会以及和谈委员会。我们的指挥部也来到这里从事了一个半月的政治对话。在10年人民战争的前提下，进行和平转变的可能性是存在的。人民战争促成了12点协议，并且我们能够以和平方式进行十月革命。假如各政党再多等两天，而不是接受4月24日，25日的宣言，结束了人民运动，那么十月革命当时就发生了。所有人都知道接受宣言是七党联盟，国王和印度之间达成秘密协议的结果。假如接受协议再推迟两天，那么数百万人民就会向Narayanhit王宫进军。当时那种动力是有的。每个人都知道。假如运动不结束，那么十月革命就会公布。通过全民公决和制宪会议选举来实现这一进程也是可能的。我们正在集中精力通过和平方式实现政治转变。然而，最后我不得不说假如这个政府从事反对人民的阴谋活动，与旧军队司令部密谋，假如他们被将军们胁迫，想作为将军们的掮客来生存和发展，那么尼泊尔人民就会起义。我们会支持这样的起义。
问：You accuse the seven parties, their government and the outside powers
of obstructing political transformation. They say that you and the arms
of the Maoists are the obstruction. Don’t you think you have to assure
people and other parties by agreeing to the management of your arms?
问：您谴责七党和他们的政府以及外部势力阻碍政治转变。他们却说你们和毛主义者的武装是障碍。难道您不认为你们只有同意治理你们的武装，才能取得人民和政党们信赖吗？
答：At this moment this is being raised as the most important question. How
Nepali politics will advance, depends on this question. We do not want to put any obstacles in the path of weapons’ management. We have said, both in the 12-point understanding and the eight-point agreement, that both the armies and their arms have to be immobilised under the monitoring and cooperation of the UN. Then, keeping the mandate and spirit of the outcome of the CA
elections, we have to reorganise the armies to make one national army. We are committed to this. However, now the seven parties have moved back a little bit from this understanding, and are raising the issue of our arms as the only obstacle to the process of political transformation. Foreign powers, such as the US and its envoy James Moriarty, are presenting it as though our arms are the only problem. The central issue of whether Nepali people have reached the point of real democracy or not rests here. From 1950 to now, which was the army that on each and every occasion suppressed the people’s movement? And which was the army that played a crucial role in breaking Gyanendra’s authoritarianism and bringing the movement to this stage? If the People’s Army was not a people’s army, then the 12-point understanding would not have been possible. Showing the February municipal elections to be a sham to the world was also the work of the People’s Army. Later, the People’s Army played a critical role in ensuring the mass general strike. The People’s Army is responsible for the reinstatement of the present HoR. Or is it that the Royal Army reinstated the HoR? Despite this fact, despite our remaining flexible, despite our saying that make arrangements for the two armies, and even after the agreement reached in Baluwatar, the parties are still going back. If we decommission and disarm, and the Royal Army remains in the same position, then what will happen? What is our thinking? That only if the People’s Army exists, will the people’s movement remain secure and protected? The Royal Army, even if it tries, cannot quell the nationwide presence and stronghold of the People’s Liberation Army, with its seven divisions.
答：此时，这是最重要的问题。尼泊尔政治能够取得多大进步，取决于这个问题的解决。我们不想在武器治理的道路上设置任何障碍。我们已经在12点协议和8点协议中说过，双方的军队和武器必须由联合国监督和治理。然后，我们根据制宪会议选举结果的要求和精神，重新把双方的军队改编成一支国家军队。我们同意这样做。然而，现在七党违反了协议，说我方武装是政治转变进程中的唯一障碍。外部势力，如美国和他的特使詹姆斯·莫里艾地提出似乎我方的武装是唯一的问题。要害问题是尼泊尔人民是否已经熟悉到真正的民主，而不是停滞在这一点上。从1950年到现在，是哪一支军队一贯地镇压人民运动？又是哪一支军队在击败贾南德拉的独裁统治方面发挥了决定性的作用，并把运动发展到今天这样的水平？假如人民军队不是人民军队，那么12点协议就不可能达成。向全世界揭露2月市政选举这一骗局的也是人民军队。之后，人民军队又在确保人民群众大罢工方面发挥了重要作用。人民军队使当前的议会被恢复，难道议会是尼泊尔王军恢复的吗？不顾事实，不顾我们保持的灵活性，不顾我们提出的对双方军队的治理，并且即使在巴鲁华特协定达成之后，政党们仍然在倒退。假如我们退役或被解除武装，而尼泊尔王军仍然存在，那会带来什么后果呢？我们在想什么呢？那就是只要人民军队存在，人民运动就有安全保障。尼泊尔王军即使倾其全力，也无法消除存在于全国各地的人民解放军要塞。
问：The fear of the parties is that how will the competition in elections between an arms-bearing party and unarmed parties be equal and fair?
问：政党们担心的是，拥有武装的政党怎么可以同没有武装的政党进行平等和公平选举竞争呢？
答：We are saying that our weapons will be under observation of the UN.
After that, we will also not have weapons, is it not? It is not like we will seek votes bearing weapons; we will go like the other parties go. Our PLA will be in the barracks and camps under observation of the UN.
答：我们一直在强调我们的武器会由联合国来监管。之后，我们也是没有武装的政党，不是吗？事情并不是我们拿着武器获取选票，我们会象其他政党那样行事。我们的人民解放军会在联合国的监督下待在军营里。
问：There are allegations against you of violating the 25-point code during
ceasefire. There are allegations of not returning houses and property that your party seized, of beating, abduction and continuing the collection of donation.
问：有人声称你们违反了25点停火协议。而且声称你们没有退还没收的房屋和财产，并继续实行强迫募捐。
答：Whatever the parties are alleging on this is only pretence. If journalists and human rights activists raise this, it is might be valid. There have been some mistakes on our part, but, equally, we are working to correct these. Why I say that the parties, claims are a deception is because the parties cannot even agree to a common mechanism to solve such issues. If they had agreed to immediately move towards an interim Constitution and interim government, then automatically the people’s courts and people’s government would have been dissolved. After that if any incident took place, we would have investigated and conducted disciplinary proceedings. Whatever the parties are saying, it’s pretence. It appears that they are merely following the orders of Washington.
答：政党们的这些断言是虚构的。假如记者或人权活动家提出来，那可能是真的。我们这边也犯了些错误，但是，我们正在改正。为什么我说政党的断言是谎言呢，因为他们从来不同意由一个共同的机构来处理这些问题。假如他们同意马上颁布临时宪法和成立临时政府，那么我们的人民法庭和人民政府就会自动解散。那之后假如发生什么事件，我们会调查并按规定处理。政党们所说的是谎言，这是他们服从华盛顿指示的表现。
普拉昌达同志谈尼泊尔当前形势（二）
问：In Baluwatar, you said that within 15 days there will be an Interim
Constitution. Till today, it has not happened. Why?
问：在巴鲁华特，您曾说过，在15天内临时宪法就可以草拟出来。可是到现在，它还没出来，这是为什么？
答：The Interim Constitution Drafting Committee is working very seriously.
However, the delay is because of the political parties. It is likely that the
Interim Constitution will be ready in one week. The dominant classes of
the old regime and even some Congress and UML Bamun-Chhetri leaders are reluctant to allow the right to self-determination with autonomous ethnic federations. This is creating bottlenecks in the process of the CA elections, isn’t it? We are in the first decade of the 21st century. The world has moved far ahead. People’s consciousness, awareness and thoughts are high. Such kind of leaders have to understand these realities. In this changing context, how can we resolve ongoing contradictions and conflicts should be the focus of our attention. The slogans that we raised are not going to bring about social unrest, but they will help to resolve social contradictions for hundreds of years in the future. I request all concerned to view, from this perspective, our programmes which will provide a political climate that will not compel people to feel cheated. No one will be in
a situation where they might have to pick up arms.For 237 years, Nepal’s State was centralised and feudal. We cannot return to that stage. Now the circumstances have changed. Now people and ethnic groups have awareness about State oppression. There is an advancement of consciousness. The State should realise this consciousness. After that, a new nation-state can be formed. If each and every person feels that they are the owners of the country, then we all will feel secure and safe. This consciousness has to be understood.
答：临时宪法起草委员会的工作是非常认真的。但是，拖延是由于政党们引起的。临时宪法完全可以在一个星期内预备好。旧政权的统治阶级，甚至一些大会党以及尼共（联合马列）的领导人不愿意把自治权力交给民族自治区。这就在制宪会议选举的进程中设置了障碍，不是吗？我们处于21世纪的第一个10年中。世界已经向前大大发展了。人民的觉悟，意识和思想提高了。这些领导人必须熟悉到这些现实。在这样变化的形势下，如何处理当前的矛盾和冲突成为我们关注的焦点。我们提出的口号不是要使社会动荡，而是要帮助解决数百年来存在的社会矛盾。我想让所有的关注者从这样的观点熟悉到，我们的计划是为了提供一种政治环境，而不是欺骗人民。谁也不愿意生活在一个迫使他不得不拿起枪杆子战斗的环境中。237年来，尼泊尔国家一直是中心集权和封建制的。我们不能倒退到那个时期。现在形势已经不同了。现在人民和少数民族已经意识到国家压迫。这是熟悉上的进步。国家应该实现这种要求。之后，应该建立一个新的民族国家。假如所有人都熟悉到这一点，他们就会成为国家的主人，那么我们所有人就会感到安全和有保障。这种思想应该被理解。
问：On this issue, there have been questions raised by the Marxists. They
say that such issues of identity are not Marxist questions. They say that to gain strength, Maoists are raising identity issues instead of focusing on class issues.
关于这个问题，马克思主义者已经提出来过。他们说类似这样的问题不属于马克思主义范畴。他们强调说，毛主义者提出类似的问题，忽视了阶级问题。
答：If they say that, then we feel that they have not understood Marxism.
Ethnic struggle is also a form of class struggle. Ethnic struggle is not different
from class struggle. Marx himself, then, had interpreted in the Irish question, that identity was a part of the class question. Lenin had replaced the slogan of ‘Workers of the World Unite’ with ‘Workers and Oppressed People of the World
Unite’ during the Third International. These Red sloganeers have not understood Marxism. Lenin has used the formulation of self determination within a federal structure. Those who accuse Maoists of having abandoned Marxism have instead acquired stakes in the existing feudal structure of Nepal. If they genuinely want to end class exploitation,then why do they fear giving powers to Madheshis, Newar, Bheri-Karnali, Seti-Mahakali, Gurung, Magar, Tharu, Rai, Limbu and others? Even though the right to divorce is there, it does not mean that a husband will always leave his wife and a wife will abandon her husband. Only after giving everyone rights will national unity be strengthened.
答：假如他们那样说，那么我们认为他们没有理解马克思主义。民族斗争也是阶级斗争的一种形式。民族斗争与阶级斗争是一致的。当年马克思本人就阐明了爱尔兰民族问题，那个问题的性质就是阶级问题。列宁在第三国际期间，把“全世界无产者联合起来”的口号换成了“全世界无产者和被压迫民族联合起来”的口号。这些所谓的马克思主义者并不理解马克思主义。列宁在一个联邦体制内采用了民族自决的形式。那些指责毛主义者放弃了马克思主义的人，自己却把尼泊尔封建制度当做背靠的大树。假如他们真想消灭阶级剥削，那么为什么害怕把权力交给Madheshis, Newar, Bheri-Karnali, Seti-Mahakali, Gurung, Magar, Tharu, Rai, Limbu以及其他民族地区呢？尽管答应离婚，但并不意味着丈夫总是离开妻子和妻子抛弃她的丈夫。只有给与所有人权力，那么国家统一才会加强。
问：The dream of a new Nepal that you talked about after the 2 Asarh (June
16) agreement at Baluwatar evoked a tremendous response among the people and raised their aspirations. But looking at the structure of the State today, without a full transformation, what possibility do you see ahead if you were to be the prime minister? In the circumstances, is not the dream too idealistic?
问：您在巴鲁华特协议（6月16日）签定后谈到一个新尼泊尔的理想，这引起了人民的热烈反响和渴望。但是，面对当前的国家体制，没有发生根本的转变，假如您成为总理，您可能会怎样做？在这样的形势下，那个理想不是空想吗？
答：It is not idealistic. We have developed the Marxism-Leninism-Maoism of the
old communist movement into a new manifesto of the 21st century because the old formulations will not work. Knowing that the old methods will not work, ten months back our central committee discussed and agreed on this matter. We did not make all this public. This document of the central committee is the new manifesto of the communist party of the 21st century. We have to evolve a new understanding of contemporary imperialism and revolution. In the prevailing context, strategy and tactics have to be new and relevant. The manner in which the party functions must also be according to a new strategy. In today’s age of globalisation and post-modernism, we have to move decisively in a new form. The 12-point understanding consciously reflects our 21st century interpretation of communist ideology. When we entered into the Baluwatar agreement, I told the world that we feel confident that we would be able to come forward with new ideas. This is not idealism. This is from our experience of the movement. These ideas came from the discussions among the tens of millions of people. Buddha was born in Lumbini but his ideas permeated the world. Likewise during our ten years of people’s war we were not merely confined to Mechchi-Mahakali or Sindhuli and Rolpa-Rukum. We lived in various states of India. We stayed from six months to one year each in Mumbai, Kolkota, Himachal, Delhi, Assam, and many other places. Our consciousness is the result of interactions and influences in a living relationship with humanity in the 21st century. This is why we are realists.
它是现实的。因为旧的方式不能解决问题，所以我们把旧共产主义运动的马列毛主义发展成了21世纪的新的宣言。10个月前，当熟悉到旧办法没用了时，我们中心委员会讨论并通过了这一决议。我们没有把它全面公开。这个中心委员会的文件是21世纪共产党的新宣言。我们必须发展当代帝国主义和革命的新理论。在主要问题上，战略和战术必须是全新的。党发挥作用的方式也应该根据新的战略。在今天全球化和后现代主义的时代，我们必须以新的形式迈出决定性的步伐。12点协议反映出我们对21世纪共产主义理论的解释。当我们签定巴鲁华特协定时，我告诉世界我们有信心以新的观点前进。这不是唯心的。这是来自于我们运动的经验。这些观点来自数千万人民的讨论。佛祖诞生于蓝毗尼，但他的思想却传遍了全世界。同样，在10年人民战争期间，我们并不局限于 Mechchi-Mahakali 或 Sindhuli 以及罗尔帕-鲁孔地区活动。我们生活在印度的各个邦。我们在孟买，Kolkota, Himachal, 德里，Assam和许多其他地方分别呆上半年到一年的时间。我们的思想是21世纪人类生产关系作用和影响下产生的。因此我们是现实主义者。
问：Let’s extend our discussion to the statement of the CPI (Maoist) (in
India) spokesperson Comrade Azad, who in a recent interview cautioned
about betrayal when collaborating with the State.
让我们谈谈印度共产党（毛主义）发言人阿乍得同志的声明，他在最近的访谈中提到在与政府合作时可能背叛的问题。
答：To begin with, we are not going to enter this present State structure.
Many people have represented us as being eager to become ministers.
They have not understood our thought and our feelings or we have
not been able to explain ourselves to them. We will not become ministers,
in the existing bureaucratic structure. We have asked for a democratic federal republic in the Interim Constitution itself. Even so there can be agreement with the SPA. After arriving at an understanding with them we can go into the interim government. Without change we won’t go there. When we believe that change has taken place then only we will go. Our people will run the ministries that we head. It is only on this condition that we will join the government. If we go without this condition then we will become just like the UML and NC.
We will not enter this State structure without this change. The 12- point
understanding and 8-point agreement have addressed issues of State
restructuring. If the SPA agrees then there is no problem. You have asked a very important question about Comrade Azad’s comments. See, when there is a revolution in the world in one instant, that revolution does not replicate itself in another time and another context. The Russian revolution took place in a very different manner to the Paris Commune. The Russian revolution took place in a different manner, the Chinese revolution took place in a very different way. The Cuban revolution did not take place in the same manner as the Chinese revolution. Stalin did not recognise the Chinese revolution as a proletariat revolution. He always held that until 1951, the Chinese revolution was a bourgeois revolution. When they really discussed about the Chinese revolution,
then he recognised it as a Communist revolution. The Russian revolution
faced attacks from all sides after its completion. Lenin proposed a treaty
with Germany in order to keep alive the revolution. Even within their central
committee, there was the accusation that Lenin had betrayed the revolution.
But the central committee rejected this decisively. The central committee needed three meetings to resolve the issue. What we are doing in Nepal is recognising the balance of power in the country, and taking the people for a new kind of revolution. Those who are viewing us from the perspective of the old forms of revolution will say that we have already Spoilt it all. However, those who view us in terms of transformation and flow of revolution will find us to be the most dynamic of communists. We made the Unity Centre (Ekta Kendra) in 2048 BS (1991). We had labelled the 1990 movement as a betrayal. But people did not accept this. When people did not believe this, then we too entered Parliament. At that time, many revolutionaries like Comrade Azad said that we were doomed. In the next three years, the RIM (Revolutionary International Movement) had declared us as Rightists and expelled us from the RIM. They had even brought out a voluminous publication on this matter. For boycotting elections, they also declared that only Mohan Bikram was a revolutionary. When we began the people’s war, all the revisionists of the world declared us foolish. They said that we would be turned into dust in ten months. But even after ten years we are here. During the first peace talks, people like Comrade Azad expected us to be finished. However, do we look at revolution in scientific terms, or do we apply the formulae of the 20th century to it is the primary question? We have, on one side, parties like the UML, who in its ‘progress’ has gone for class co-existence. Whatever we are attempting in Nepal is both risky and challenging. But without facing challenges and risks, which revolution in the world has taken place? When we address these challenges, it will appear that sometimes we are going to the Left and sometimes to the Right. In the course of revolution, if one goes Left, then they are Leftists. If they swerve to the Right, then they will be Rightists. We are walking on both our legs. Sometimes the left foot leads, sometimes the right foot is forward. It is only by walking on both our legs that we accomplished the ten years of struggle. When we extend our right foot, then some people accuse us of being Rightists. When we put forward our left foot, they call us Leftists. It is only when we walk using both our feet, that it is scientific.
首先，我们不会参加当前的政府。许多人认为我们想当部长。他们不了解我们的想法和我们的感情，或者我们没有向他们解释。我们不会当前官僚国家机构的部长。
我们要求根据临时宪法成立民主联邦共和国。尽管，那应该同七党联盟达成协议。在他们达成协议后，我们可以加入临时政府。否则，我们不会加入。只有当我们认为情况改变了，我们才会加入。我们领导的人民将成为部长。只有在这个条件下，我们才会参加政府。假如没有这个条件就加入，那我们就同尼共（联合马列）以及尼泊尔大会党没有区别了。没有这个变化我们不会进入国家机构。12点协议和8点协议已经阐明了国家机构的问题。假如七党联盟同意，那就没问题了。你提到一个非常重要的问题，即阿扎德同志的意见。要知道，当世界上发生一场革命时，那么这场革命不会是另一场革命的复制。俄国革命与巴黎公社革命的方式非常不同。俄国革命以一种不同的方式爆发，而中国革命又以另一种形式爆发。古巴革命同中国革命的情况也不同。斯大林曾经不承认中国革命是无产阶级革命。他一直到1951年还认为，中国革命是一场资产阶级革命。当他们认真研究中国革命后，于是他承认那是一场共产主义革命。俄国革命完成后，四面受敌。列宁为了拯救革命被迫与德国签定条约。甚至在中心委员会内部，也有人指责列宁背叛了革命。中心委员会断然拒绝了列宁的提议，中心委员会召开了三次会议才解决了这一问题。我们正在尼泊尔所做的是承认国家力量的平衡，并领导人民进行一场新型的革命。那些从旧的革命形式观点看我们的人会说我们已经彻底垮了。然而，那些以革命运动的观点看我们的人会发现我们是最有活力的共产主义者。我们在1991年建立了联合中心。我们把1990年运动视为背叛。但是人们当时不接受这一点。当人们不相信时，于是我们也加入议会。在那时，许多象阿乍得同志那样的革命者说我们失败了。三年后，革命国际运动公布我们为右倾机会主义者，并把我们从革命国际运动中开除。关于这件事，他们有大量的资料。为了联合抵制选举，他们还公布只有莫汗·比克艾母才是个革命者。当我们开始人民战争时，世界上所有的修正主义者都认为我们是傻瓜。他们说我们会在10个月内就化为灰烬。但是，10年以后我们仍然存在。在第一次和谈期间，象阿扎德同志那样的人认为我们会罢手。然而，我们是否以科学的方式看待革命，或者我们是否应用20世纪的革命公式，这些是首要问题吗？我们有过象尼共（联合马列）那样的党，那个党为了发展而去搞阶级调和。我们在尼泊尔做的一切布满风险和挑战。但是，假如没有这些挑战和风险，世界上又怎会有革命发生？
当我们应对这些挑战时，就会表现出有时我们偏左了，有时我们偏右了。在革命过程中，假如有人朝左走，那么他们是左派。假如他们转向右边，那么他们就成了右派。我们在用我们的两条腿走路。有时我们伸出左脚，有时我们伸出右脚。就是用我们的两条腿走路，我们完成了10年的斗争。当我们伸出右脚时，有人就指责我们是右派。当我们伸出左脚时，他们就叫我们左派。只有我们用两只脚走路时，那才是科学的。
问：We see indications that the CA and republic are not on the horizon. If
so, what are your preparations?
我们感到制宪会议和共和国不会实现了。假如那样，你们预备怎么办？
答：We have not thought that possibilities are exhausted. But the situation has
gone a bit awry. Against this, people have to raise their voice. When we
explained in our recent statement about being committed to peaceful means, we included that statement after much deliberation. We thought that it was possible to maintain ceasefire and go ahead with a peaceful people’s movement. It is possible to go via constituent assembly to democratic republic. This way has to be peaceful. If this is not to be, then Nepali people will go for an uprising. If people go for such a revolt, then CPN(Maoist) will support the revolt.
答：我们不认为一点可能性都没了。但是，情况有点偏差。人民应该表达他们的不满。当我们最近发表关于和平活动的声明时，我们是经过深思熟虑的。我们认为可能保持停火，而以和平人民运动的方式前进。有可能通过制宪会议来实现民主共和国。这种方式必须是和平的。假如不成，那么尼泊尔人民就会发动一场起义。假如人民发动这样的起义，那么尼泊尔共产党（毛主义）会支持起义。
问：After you talked with the Misturaled UN team, you were looking satisfied.
What transpired there?
在您同联合国小组谈过话后，您看上去还满足。发生了什么？
答：There cannot be a universal arrangement for arms management across the
world. Nepal has a unique context. According to our own context, we will manage. I was happy that they acknowledged that they could not replicate the examples of Mozambique and East Timor. Further, they agreed that the prime minister’s letter was not in accordance with the eight-point agreement.
世界上没有对武装治理的通用模式。尼泊尔的情况是非凡的。根据我们自己的想法，我们可以治理。让我兴奋的是，他们熟悉到他们不能照搬莫桑比克和东帝汶的模式。而且，他们认同总理的信违反了8点协议。
（翻译：红石）
